We Offer History #30 (for the history challenged)

NOVEMBER 12, 1816

To George Logan
DEAR SIR          Poplar Forest near Lynchburg Nov. 12. 16.
I recieved your favor of Oct. 16. at this place, where I pass much
of my time, very distant From Monticello. I am quite astonished at the idea
which seems to have got abroad; that I propose publishing something on the
subject of religion. And this is said to have arisen from a letter of mine
to my friend Charles Tnompson, in which certainly there is no trace of such
an idea. When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I
may say Christianity itself divided into it's thousands also, who are
disputing, anathematising, and where the laws permit, burning and torturing
one another for abstractions which no one of them understand, and which are
indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into which of the
chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best
preacher,'fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains no mystery, needs no
explanation--but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes; priests
could not live by it. Your ideas of the moral obligations of governments
are perfectly correct. The man who is dishonest as a statesman would be a
dishonest man in any station. It is strangely absurd to suppose that a
million of human beings collected together are not under the same moral
laws which bind each of them separately. It is a great consolation to me
that our government, as it cherishes most it's duties to it's own citizens,
so is it the most exact in it's moral conduct towards other nations. I do
not believe that in the four administrations which have taken place, there
has been a single instance of departure from good faith towards other
nations. We may sometimes have mistaken our rights, or made an erroneous
estimate of the actions of others, but no voluntary wrong can be imputed
to us. In this respect England exhibits the most remarkable phaenomenom in
the universe in the contrast between the profligacy of it's government and
the probity of it's citizens. And accordingly it is now exhibiting an
example of the truth of the maxim that virtue and interest are inseparable.
it ends, as might have been expected, in the ruin of it's people. But this
ruin will fail heaviest, as it ought to fall, on that hereditary
aristocracy which has for generations been preparing the catastrophe. I
hope we shall take warning from the example and crush in it's birth the
aristocracy or our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our
government to a trial of strength, and to bid defiance to the laws of their
country. Present me respectfully to Mrs. Logan and to yourself my friendly
& respectful salutation.                  Tn: JEFFERSON
PoC (DLC).

George Logan (1753-1821), a wealthy Pennsylvania Quaker and strict
paciftst who
had personally undertaken controversial peace missions to Paris in 1798
and to London in 1810, served in the U.S. Senate, 1801-1807, and was a
frequent correspondent of TJ. His FAVOR OF OCT`. 16. argued the need to
apply Christian moral principles to the conduct of politics and
stated: "I contemplate with great satisfaction the publication of your
system of ethicks extracted from the holy scriptures, as tending to support
the correct maxim-- that religion should influence the political as well as
the moral conduct of man, strictly complying with the sacred injunction, of
doing unto others whatever we desire others to do unto us." In writing
this letter, Logan
obviously had some knowledge of TJ's letter to Charles Thomson of 9 Jan.
1816
(printed above).
Soon after dispatching this letter, TJ received from Joseph
Delaplaine of Philadelphia an even more graphic account of the rumors to
which his correspondence with Thomson had given rise. Delaplaine, who was
seeking biographical information for a sketch of TJ that was to appear in
the second volume of Delaplaine's Repository of the Lives and Portraits of
Distinguished American Characters, 2 vols. (Philadelphia, 1816-17), noted:
"I have been several times recently, to see the honorable Charles Thomson.
He spoke of you Freely. It appears that one of your letters gave him great
delight. It is that, in which you speak of the scriptures &c. After this, I
will not
conceal from you the fact, and it is now no secret, that your letter to Mr.
Thomson as well as one to another gentleman in another quarter, near
Philada., has been quoted. Genl. Wilkinson said to me a few days ago 'Sir,
I am happy to learn that Mr. Jefferson has written to a gentleman that he
has become a disciple or follower of Jesus Christ.' To be brief, it is in
general circulation, and a current opinion and belief, that you have avowed
yourself a perfect believer in the Christian Religion and that vou believe
in the Divinity of our snviour. This has gained such ground that Genl.
Wilkinson, has given it a place, he told me a few days ago, in his work
which will be published in 2 or 3 weeks.--I mention these things, dear sir,
in a frank, open manner, to enable you to know, if you have not already
heard, what the people say in this quarter on this subject. And I can say
that the Religious world m this quarter, are daily congratulating each
other, on what they call, your happy change of Religious belief.-On this
subject, Dear sir, I beg leave to say one word. I had been requested by
their possessors and others to look at these letters spoken of, but From my
great regard for you, have declined doing so, unless I should receive your
approbation, which I shall not ask for. But I beg leave to say, dear sir,
that inasmuch as the   respectable gentlemen to whom you have written,
believe that your letters justify and authorize them to promulgate what has
been mentioned, can I ask from you on the subject of Religionprecisely that
which you believe, for the purpose of introducing it in you life, not for
the world, however, in the way of quotation, but in general terms. I know
well, that if the change m your
Religious faith, so spoken of by these gentlemen, is mentioned in the
Repository, it will give a tone and currency to the book, in a certain
quarter, and in the Religious world, that will produce great and lasting
benefits to me" (Delaplaine to TJ, 23 Nov.1816).
In reply TJ Ratly refused to comply with Delaplaine's request that
he elucidate his   religious beliefs: "To the enquiries in your's of Nov.
23. I answer 'say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself
alone. It's evidence before the world is to be sought in my life. If that
has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which  has regulated it
cannot be a bad one' " (TJ to Delaplaine, 15 Dec. 1816). In consequence,
the account of TJ's life that was  printed in Delaplaine's Repository made
no mention of his religious beliefs.
The other CENTLEMAN ... NEAR PHILADA. mentioned by Delaplaine was probably
Dr. Robert Patterson, in whose home Charles Thomson inadvertently left the
letter TJ had written to him on 9 Jan. 1816.
In any event, the only letter of the sort described by Delaplaine
that TJ is known to have written to someone in or around Philadelphia in
1816 is the one to Thompson.
(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Letter to George Logan from Thomas Jefferson,
Novermber 12, 1816.The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, 2nd series, Jefferson's
Extracts from the Gospels, "The Philosophy of Jesus" and "The Life and
Morals of Jesus." Dickinson W. Adams, Editor, Princeton University Press,
Princeton, N J, (1983)  pp 381-382)

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You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

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. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning.  Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic."  New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
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James Veverka wrote:
One of the ways to counter the attack on American Constitutional principles
by the religious right is to address their revisionism, misinformation and
distortions.

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USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

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THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

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