Re: More on : Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing?

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:16:01 +0000, ZerkonX <Z@X.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:30:03 -0400, Art wrote:
>
>> I disagree. I thnk the concept of "nothing" precedes the concept of
>> number(s). Numbers were invented to count things. If there are no apples
>> on the table, there are zero apples on the table. But "no apples" is
a
>> earlier or more primitive concept than "zero apples".
>
>Excellent issue here.
>
>'No apples' is not necessarily the same as 'Zero apples'. 'No apples'
>implies the absence of apples on that table only. 'Zero Apples' can imply
>the none existence of apples, or apples never were. Zero apples leads to
>the impossibility of apples whereas no apples lead to the possibility of
>apples not yet present.

I disagree again :) Either "no apples" or "zero apples" can imply the
non-existence of apples. "No apples" = "zero apples". They are one
and same concept.

>Staying with apples for a moment, "an apple and another apple are apples
>on a table" is different from "1 apple plus 1 more apple are 2 apples on
>a table".

The notion of plurality exists either way. "Two apples" is a precise
specification, that's all. Precise specification (numbers) were a
later development.

>The qualifying number starts to replace the object as a
>physical concept

Qualifying numbers are just numbers. They do not replace
objects. They are not substitutes for objects. They are
abstractions.

>and the 'plus' begins to replace the actual operation
>needed to have both apples together on the table.

The "plus" doesn't "replace" anything. It's a abstract
operator.

You seem to be struggling with the concept of what I'll call
"absolute nothingness" or the absence of anything at all ...
no universe ... no minds ... no anything. In that case,
besides plain language, one might speak in terms of sets and
set theory and speak of all possible sets as empty.

>>a uncaused Creator makes sense to me..
>
>Of course. It not only makes sense to you it gives sense to everything.
>However, the question I have is in the 'making of sense' aspect of God
>and Zero (aka nothing).

Well, if God exists obviously absolute nothingness doesn't. Absolute
nothingness seems like a absurd and meaningless concept, does it not?

Art
http://home.ptd.net/~artnpeg
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