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Re: Chuang Tzu

chi po wrote:
> {:-]))) wrote:
>> chi po wondered:

>> > And people really think they understand this stuff?
>>
>> Sure.
>> Some more than others.

>"But suppose there is one who chariots on the normality of the
>universe, rides on the transformation of the six elements, and thus
>makes excursion into the infinite, what has he to depend upon?"
>
>That's suppose to be happy?

Fung writes, in another book,
how there are levels of happiness.

When Lieh Tzu could ride the wind,
that was a great thing, but he depended
on something, the wind. How much better
would it have been to depend on nothing.

If happiness and unhappiness go hand in hand,
this presupposes another realm wherein the two
are not separate but go together in a unified way.
Understanding how this situation arises can be
a key toward transcending limited happiness.
It can be an excursion into something beyond,
something eternal, in a manner of speaking.

>Does that make sense to Taoists?

I don't know about all Taoists
but it makes perfect sense to me.

> Do fish fly in Taoist philosophy?

There's a tale in which they swim,
darting to and fro without a care.
Zz was said to have said
that's what fish really enjoy.

repeating:
>> > And people really think they understand this stuff?

Here's a couple bytes more of Fung.

"Fung has, 'There is another line of Taoist
thought, however, which emphasizes the relativity
of the nature of things and the identification of
man with the universe. To achieve this
identification, man needs knowledge and
understanding of still a higher level, and the
happiness resulting from this identification is
really absolute happiness, as expounded
in Chuang Tzu's chapter on "The Happy Excursion."
...'

Speaking again of chapter two of the CT, 'This
passage in the Ch'i Wu Lun, however is immediately
followed by another statement: "Since all things
are one, what room is there for speech? But since
I have already spoken of the one, is this not
already speech? ... ... ...the Ch'i Wu Lun
goes a step further than Hui Shih, and begins to
discuss a higher kind of knowledge. This higher
knowledge is "knowledge which is not knowledge."'

Fung goes on, ...'Chuang Tzu reached a final
resolution of the original problem of the early
Taoists. That problem is how to preserve life and
avoid harm and danger. But, to the real sage, it
ceases to be a problem. As is said in the
_Chuang-tzu_: "The universe is the unity of all
things. If we attain this unity and identify
ourselves with it, then the members of our body
are but so much dust and dirt, while life and
death, end and beginning, are but as the
separation of day and night, which cannot disturb
our inner peace. How much less shall we be
troubled by worldly gain and loss, good-luck and
bad-luck!" (Ch 20.) Thus Chuang Tzu solved the
original problem of the early Taoists simply by
abolishing it. This is really the philosophical
way of solving problems.'
[quotes taken from _A Short History ..._] "

-hth

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