Hilfe & Kontakt

StarTrek physics issue in new movie

Von: Isaac (groups@sonic.net) [Profil]
Datum: 04.01.2010 08:02
Message-ID: <4b41928c$0$1956$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Newsgroup: alt.startrek
Hi All,

Has anyone notice something odd in the physics of the latest StarTrek movie?
I just saw it on DVD yesterday.  I had an intellectual/physics problem with
the scene towards the end there the Enterprise got caught in the black hole
singularity they created to destroy the rogue Romulan war ship. In the
movie, the Enterprise got stuck in a stalemate between an implied forward
thrust of the warp drive and the gravitational attraction of the newly
formed black hole.  The problem(s) I have with it (intuitively) are two
fold, as follows (can anyone provide or speculate on some well reasoned

1.  Warp Drive is overcomes the speed of light limits, which would otherwise
require infinite energy and result in infinite mass.  I've always understood
that warp drive overcomes this physics of space-time by warping space around
the spaceship so that it changes the space-time inertial properties of
within the warped bubble such that the allowable speed of light if much
higher than normal space.  I figure that is just like how the speed of light
in glass is slower than in a vacuum, just changing the properties of the
medium ("empty" space) in the reverse.  Now, a black hole has a strong
enough gravitational filed within the event horizon to bend light and if
close enough "suck" it in.  So, if you were within the event horizon it
would similarly take infinite energy to escape the gravitational field,
which makes it seem like you have infinite mass.  Intuitively, it would seem
to me that if the warp drive can change the local properties of space-time
to avoid infinite energy and infinite mass, then why would the same/similar
issues induced by the black hole not be similarly overcome?  That is,
instead of resulting in a stalemate, the warping of space-time that allows
faster than light travel should allow steady forward motion away from the
black hole, and progressively speed up as the ship moves down the gradient
of the gravity well.  BTW, if you argue that the reason for the stalemate is
because the black hole was still growing in strength, which counteracts the
small forward momentum gains I expected, then I would reply that is not
logical because the Enterprise was maxing out its warp drive forward thrust
so given the black hole was still gaining strength that should have resulted
in being at least slowly getting pulled towards the black how as it
strengthened (this think this is another logical error their science
writers/consultants messed up on).

2.  The way that they escaped the stalemate of the growing black hole was to
dump some core material from the warp drive system behind them and have them
ignite into a blast wave, which wave supposedly gave the Enterprise just
enough forward momentum to break free of the black holes grasp.  My problem
with the physics on this is that the blast way should have also been trapped
by the black hole and not be able to apply any forward pressure on the ship.
I say this because presumably the explosion was some kind of
matter/anti-matter explosion, given that the warp drive is powered by
dilithium crystal, which I assume provides a way to generate antimatter.  In
any case, the explosion was either matter or pure energy release by the
annihilation of matter with anti-matter.  Either way, the black hole should
equally suck those in at the same rate as the ship since the warp drive acts
to move faster than light, which the matter/energy of the blast cannot
benefit from.  So, the ship should actually have better forward momentum
advantages than anything created by the blast wave.  Thus, it seems
illogical for the blast wave to be able to save them in any way.  Am I
missing something here, or did there physics consultants screw this up too?

Having said the above, I propose a physically plausible and coherent way to
save the Enterprise in that situation, and my solution could be a new kind
of weapon for the Federation to gain military superiority over red matter
situations.  OK, here is my solution and back up.  It goes like this:  given
that a black hole is a gravity field and electromagnetic waves cannot effect
the gradient of the gravity well we need something that can disturb the
gravity filed holding the ship in the stalemate (let's assume we believe
that warp drive is defeated by black hole gravity) just enough for the ship
to gain forward movement out of the gravity well to a point where it forward
thrust is greater than the gravitational pull.  My solution is to use dark
energy because it is the only thing we know of that can push matter away and
easily beats the force of gravity, which is why our universe is not only
expanding, but acceleratingly so.  I would invent a dark energy bomb that is
contained (like an antimatter bomb) until detonation and then the huge
release of dark energy would at least generate a gravity wave disturbance in
between the black hole and the Enterprise and during the lull of the gravity
wave the ship could instantly gain forward momentum and break free.
Moreover, if the anti-gravity force of the dark energy is not effected
gravitational fields then that would also give the ship a push.  I think it
is very plausible to believe that in a few hundred years we will have
discovered the grand unification theory, which would be a road map to how to
locate, harness, contain, and manipulate dark energy.  A dark energy bomb
might work the same way as a black hole shreds matter, just for the opposite
reason- massive push instead of massive pull.

Can anyone provide and intelligent and physics informed response to my
issues and solutions above?

I look forward to good replies.  I do not check this news group often so
please also email your posts/replies to groups@sonic.net.

Ariel S. Bentolila

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