Hilfe & Kontakt

Proof Of Love [K/S commentary] (Revised)

Von: ToolPackinMama (philnblanc@comcast.net) [Profil]
Datum: 03.04.2010 23:08
Message-ID: <hp8aof$pgh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Newsgroup: alt.startrek alt.tv.star-trek.tos
Proof Of Love [K/S commentary]
by Laura Goodwin

How can you tell if someone is "madly in love" with a person? What are
the signs that, specifically, Captain Kirk is "madly in love" with a person?

We can produce a very specific answer to this question, that is solidly
canon-based. Remember this scene from Dagger Of The Mind?


In the scene above, Kirk is helpless in the thrall of a mind bending
device and his tormentor, Dr. Adams, is planting a false suggestion in
Kirk's unwilling mind. Dr. Helen Noel is being held against her will by
Adams' goon in the background.

Dr. Adams (to Kirk): "You're madly in love with Helen, Captain. You'd
lie, cheat, steal for her... sacrifice your career, your reputation. For
years you've loved her, Captain."

Kirk (hypnotized): "For years, I've loved you."

Adams: "You must continue to remember that, Captain."

In Dagger Of The Mind, Kirk is hypnotized into believing that he is
madly in love with Helen Noel. Dr. Noel (it is shown) actually would
like for Kirk to be truly in love with her, since she pretty clearly has
the hots for him, but she is horrified at the mind-altered Kirk's
mechanically-induced ardor, and she firmly reminds Kirk more than once
as the story progresses that his desire for her is phony.

The truth about their relationship is that Kirk maybe likes her a little
bit, but that's as far as it goes, and it's also as far as it probably
ever would go. We are shown that Noel cherishes erotic fantasies about
Kirk, but the feelings are definitely not mutual, and, early in the
episode, Kirk makes that completely clear.

We never see Helen Noel, nor hear of her, again. Like all of Kirk's
other female "love interests", she proves to be a trivial character, and
is completely disposable.

No matter how much Kirk "loves" any woman, she's always completely out
of the picture at episode's end. No matter how many times Kirk "desires"
a woman character, the connection is always fleeting and superficial.
Most of the time, when Kirk "loves" a woman, the love is obviously
perfectly false. Either the woman herself is false (not really a
woman:android, alien-in-human-form, phantasm) or Kirk's feelings for her
are quite explicitly false (he's obviously pretending - either
willfully, or because he is forced - or he has amnesia, is
drugged/mechanically mind-altered), and usually, it's both. For example,
in The Paradise Syndrome, Kirk "loved" his wife Priestess Miramanee, BUT
he had amnesia, AND he was required to marry her by tribal law. Not only
didn't he really have a choice, but he wouldn't have had the wits to
choose wisely even if he had been given a choice. Plus, like any of
Kirk's minor lady-loves, she was disposed of (in her case, dead) by
episode's end.

The one notable exception is Edith Keeler (City On The Edge Of Forever).
Kirk's infatuation for her is not forced in any way, and seems sincere.
She actually is a real woman, too. However, Kirk most emphatically never
lied, cheated, stole, nor sacrificed his reputation and career for her.
No. The only thing he sacrificed was her. He admitted to Mr. Spock
(interestingly, NOT to her) that he was "in love" with her, but how did
he prove his love? He didn't prove his love for her. He failed to prove
his love for her. In that episode, all he proved with his actions is
that her life, and his "love" for her, were not the most important
things to him. Something/someone else was more important, as usual.

Something/someone else is ALWAYS more important to Kirk. Let's see if we
can figure out what/who that is.

Well, let's see... has Kirk ever actually lied, cheated, stolen for
anybody? Has Kirk ever risked his reputation and his career for anybody?
Has Kirk ever proven that he is madly in love with anybody, judging by
the criteria that Dr. Adams outlined?

Boy, THAT really narrows it down, doesn't it!? Well, let's see... hmm. I
can't think of any woman that Kirk did all these things for, can you? If
you can, please name the woman, the episode/movie where she appeared,
and detail the specifics of the case.

Can't think of one? Well, neither can I.

Well, gee, does Kirk ever do all those things for any thing/person? Yes,
of course he does. We have been shown, quite dramatically, in a big way,
more than once, that Kirk can/does love to that extent.

When? Well, in Amok Time, and in Star Trek 3: The Search For Spock.

1) Amok Time - To save Spock's life, Kirk keeps a big fat secret from
his superiors (lies), takes the ship in a direction that he is forbidden
to take it (steals), and explicitly risks his reputation, career ~and
his life~ for Spock's sake.

BTW, this is the episode where Spock returns home to mate, but instead
he dumps his would be bride, and returns to the ship. When he sees Kirk
there, alive and well, he greets Kirk ecstatically (and Kirk eats it
up), acts more wildly emotional over Kirk than he did over T'Pring
(which McCoy comments on) - then Spock and Kirk run off together at the end.

2) ST3: Search For Spock - To restore Spock's katra to his body, and
thereby save Spock's life (in other words, AGAIN for Spock's sake), Kirk
steals the Enterprise, risks his reputation, his career, and his life,
etc. etc. He even is willing to sacrifice the ship, for Spock, and we
all know that's saying a lot. Kirk even loses his son in the process,
which is very painful for Jim, but at the end all the trouble and loss
and pain seems worth it, because Spock is successfully restored to full
life. Plus, God bless him, he remembers Jim's name. He is not fully
himself yet, he doesn't remember much of anything else, but by GOD he
remembers Jim's name.

BTW, this is the movie where, in an early voice over, Kirk says he feels
that he left his "more noble half" (in other words, his better half!) on
Genesis. This is also the movie where Kirk says to his superior officer
that he considers Spock's immortal soul to be his responsibility as much
as his own is. This is also the movie where Sarek shows up unexpectedly
at Kirk's quarters and seems to just assume that Kirk is the one who
must be carrying Spock's katra, apparently because he knows, as well as
anyone else seems to know, that Kirk and Spock were TIGHT LIKE THAT.

But that's not all we have. We also have...

This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/within.html  Kirk flirting with
Spock, and coming on to him

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/naked.htm Spock admits to
shameful feelings for Kirk, and they can't keep their hands off of each

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/backrub.html  Kirk expected
it to be Spock back there, and is dismayed to realize that it's a woman

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/changeling.htm Kirk hugs
Spock, has his hands all over him, doesn't want to let go, and Spock
allows it

And This:  http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/amok.htm Spock is much
happier to see/be with Kirk than he is to see/be with his would-be bride

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/patterns.htm Kirk and Spock
engage in some highly kinky master/slave behavior without a solid
duty-related reason to do so
And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/ksmeld.jpg See Image. Spock
mind-melds with Kirk and makes him forget his feelings for Reyna Kepek

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/children.html  Kirk freaks
out, expresses fear of being alone, and Spock lovingly reassures him

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/turnabout.html  Kirk says
Spock is closer to him than anyone else in the universe, Spock risks his
reputation and career for Kirk, and they boldly hold hands in front of

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/simplefeeling.html  Spock and
Kirk hold hands and squeeze, and squeeze, and SQUEEZE, and show obvious
love for each other, as they talk about how important emotions are n
stuff, in front of witnesses

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/neither.jpg See Image. Both
Kirk and Spock refusing to "Live Long and Prosper" without the other.

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/yours.jpg See Image.  Spock
declares his all encompassing, unending love for Kirk

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/cptnplease.jpg See Image.
Spock warns Kirk to save the mushy stuff for later

And This: http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/chekovsaw.html  Kirk and
Spock apparently steal a quick kiss

Which, face it, is more episodes and more demonstrations than either of
them ever gave to any woman. But that ain't all! Heck yes, there's more.
Much more.




The whole movie Star trek 3 is about the fact that the only ship Kirk
really cares about is his relationship with Spock, but the entire
original Star Trek series generally makes that point and demonstrates it
again and again.  That point is never challenged in any way by any of
the original cast movies that followed - in fact they only added fuel to
the fire by adding more K/S tidbits, while never once pretending to give
either of the guys a serious female love interest.

In the new Star Trek movie, we are shown a rebooted Star Trek universe
which is explicitly an alternate timeline universe, and nothing that
happens there reflects at all on all of the Trek that went before.  They
cooked up a red-hot affair between Spock and Uhura, as if to try at this
late stage to prove him to be firmly heterosexual - but in the same
movie they felt the need to show older Spock warning his younger self to
not miss his chance to build a relationship with Kirk - which is what
you would expect Spock to do, if it's the same old Spock we know.

In the new Star Trek movie, we are also offered this tantalizing and
utterly classic Kirkian moment:

Uhura (to Kirk):  "For a moment there I thought you were just a dumb
hick who only has sex with farm animals."

Kirk (puckishly): "Well, not ONLY..."

It's made clear enough that this reboot-Kirk isn't a completely
re-visioned Kirk. As usual, he doesn't manage to establish a
relationship with any woman, and instead spends the majority of his time
bedeviling Spock.  And it works.  Spock is clearly, unequivocally,
totally successfully bedeviled.

Back to Adams' criteria: who in all of the Star Trek universe, did Kirk
*actually* love for years? FOR YEARS, through thick and thin? We all
know the answer to that one, don't we? We all know who Kirk really would
lie, cheat, steal for, and sacrifice his career/reputation for AND whom
Kirk actually loved for years, yes? Spock.

Isn't it just too perfect that the feeling is 100% obviously, explicitly
mutual? Spock is clearly crazy about Kirk, too.

Kirk and Spock's relationship with each other is the primary love
relationship for both of them. It spans decades, endures terrible
trials, and defies even death. It's love. MAD LOVE, baby. Kirk and Spock
are madly in love with each other, and yes, it's canon.

But didn't Roddenberry deny that any of that was in there? What if he
did? But no...

<< We [the interviewers] tell Gene [Roddenberry] something of our recent
interview with Bill [Shatner] and Leonard [Nimoy] - touching on the
Kirk-Spock relationship, and Nimoy's feeling that Kirk was essential to
Spock's life:

"I know you've told us you designed that relationship as 'Two halves
which come together to make a whole'. Is that how you still see it?"

[Roddenberry]: "Oh yes. As I've said, I definitely designed it as a love
relationship. I think that's what we're all about - love, the effort to
reach out to each other. I think that's a lovely thing. Also,
dramatically, I designed Kirk and Spock to complete each other - and in
fact, the Kirk, Spock McCoy triad to be the dramatic embodiment of the
parts of one person: logic, emotion, and the balance between them. You
cannot have an internal monologue on the screen, so that is a way of
personifying it, getting it out where it can be seen - that internal
debate which we all have within. AND I designed Kirk and Spock, as I
told you, as dream images of myself, the two halves. But in terms of the
characters, yes. That closeness... absolutely.">>

There is also this:

<<"There's a great deal of writing in the Star Trek movement which
compares the relationship between Alexander and Hephaistion* to the
relationship between Kirk and Spock - focusing on the closeness of the
friendship, the feeling that they would die for one another..."

[Roddenberry]: "Yes, there's certainly some of that - certainly with
love overtones. Deep love. The only difference being, the Greek ideal -
we never suggested in the series - physical love between the two. But
it's the - we certainly had the feeling that the affection was
sufficient for that, if that were the particular style of the 23rd

[From: Shatner: Where No Man...: The Authorized Biography of William
Shatner (Chapter 7 - Page 145, 147-8)]

... he didn't.

If Roddenberry didn't deny it, we shouldn't, either. Besides, you don't
need a confession if you have enough evidence.

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